Investing in EdTech

Welcome to the Learning Can't Wait podcast an iTutor production at iTutor. Our vision is to ensure every child has access to education regardless of circumstance. Each episode, we will be joined by Pathfinders within and around the education space. Who are bringing about transformational change? On behalf of deserving students, I am your host, Hayley Spira-Bauer.

Thank you so much to everyone for joining us today for our Innovations and Education podcasts. I'm your host, Hayley Spira-Bauer, and today we are joined by two incredible guests, Jessica Millstone and Ali Iberraken. Thank you both so much for joining me today. Thank you for having us. Yes, thank you so much.

It's a funny story, I think, of how I met specifically Jessica, but now I'm connected to Ali and I'm really excited for everybody to hear today because Jessica, not to overshadow the story of how you got into education and how you landed to where you are today, but. . You're known as the Queen. You're known as the Queen of EdTech in New York.

Do you, do you know about that title? I think specifically the Queen of EdTech meetups. So very much about, being kind of a community organizer in the space. I have been called that before, . Thank you . I love, I love how your humility shines through because I did not hear the EdTech meetups. The meetups wasn't part of that title, but I'll let you, I'll let you add it for right now.

Too much at it. Queen and Lady Boss. Ooh, that's also a good title and probably a good theme for our podcast today. I mean, I would say that, I mean, LadyBoss is one that I definitely embrace because, my entire work and my passion is really around supporting women entrepreneurs. So anything that shines a light on, female founders and women working in the space, I'm all for it.

I think by the end of this we'll probably have six more titles we can call one another. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start keeping track of them so we can add them as hashtags to the podcast after the event. But what, Jessica, why don't you, why don't you paint some, paint a picture, please, for our audience about who you are, why you're so passionate today about investing in women, in education, and maybe how you earned that title and how it connects to just your general philosophy about education.

If you don't. Absolutely. So I've been really lucky. I think that I've worked, I've worked in the technology space for over 25 years and almost all of that has been in the edtech space in educational technology. I started as a teacher, I became a professor of education, at Bank Street College. I worked in software product development for about 12 or 15 years, and then most recently have shifted over into the.

Space. So I feel like I've had a really interesting arc, both, starting in the classroom and starting, you know, working directly with teachers and students around the integration of technology and then really helping from all kinds of different angles to help build those technologies and, you know, sort of help nurture along, the, the themes, the trends, the, the, really exciting innovations in how we teach and learn.

You know, every age group. Uh, and I just been feel like I've just been really lucky to have been able to then exposed to all parts of that space, the edtech space, and meet people from all parts of those spaces. And I, I do really love, connecting those people together, the. Where I am right now, I'm the managing director of a small venture capital fund called Copper Wire Ventures.

And Copper Wire is the most conductive metal there is. So we really feel like the name of the firm and the fund is really about connecting people together, and that's been a, a theme throughout my, my profession, my professional life. One of the things I find so interesting about so many of our guests is that they, they, they name this, this piece about luck.

but I also think there's a lot of engineering that goes behind how people have built their careers. And Jessica, when we last spoke in preparation for this podcast, one of the things that I really. Really stood out to me is how you sort of manifested your career and how you had a hit list for where you wanted to work and how you achieved that.

And I'd love if you could just, you know, as part of your introduction too, just, just speak to what that manifestation looks like. I think it's an overused term right now, but I still love it because I, it, it's a real, it really happened for you. It really worked for you. And how you kind of hustled to get to the place you're in today, where you get to invest in other amazing people who are hustling and manifest.

Yeah, I mean, I fully subscribe both to the idea that if you identify and really speak out loud the kinds of things that you're looking for and want to be doing that, that is very, that's the first step towards achieving those goals. And I also really believe in the adage, you know,you can't be it unless you see it.

So, you know, I've really tried to always find people in spaces that were interesting to me to kind of look up to. Aspirational mentors, actual mentors. I've had quite a few. , in my whole career, of course, but specifically around, you know, moving between, transitioning between areas of the space that I work in.

That's really been, I think the, the key factor is, you know, writing down a list of all the places that are doing the work that I admire and I think are making the biggest difference in the world. And then identifying some of the people who are involved with them and trying to meet them or, follow them in some way.

I mean, it's never been easier to do that in terms of, you know, there's so many amazing thought leaders out there who are, as they say, building in public, you know, publishing their thoughts and ideas and getting it out through social media or, you know, blogs and medium. LinkedIn, things like that. So it's really become a lot easier to identify the kind of mentors I want to emulate and look up to.

and that's been really the way I've crafted my career is, you know, building up as much as I can like, like, I guess currency of contacts and, and working with, you know, the networking and working with people, you know, in addition to my time in the classroom and as a professor. And then, In product development.

You know, the other thing that I've done is help coordinate the New York edtech meetup, which is a 9,000 plus member professional networking organization. I was a member of it and then as just like a very active member, I became one of the co-organizers of it. It's actually how I met Ali, who we're gonna talk to in a little bit.

So, she was a speaker at one of our events one night, and, I just feel like, you know, just getting the people together in the same space is the way to really. Transition from whatever it is that you're doing towards what you want to be doing. And you know, like you said, manifesting those aspirations and ideals.

Thank you so much for sharing that. And, and I think it's a perfect opportunity to introduce Ali, whom you named as someone you met through the edtech meetup. Ali, welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. So what were you talking about the day that you met Jessica?

Do you remember that exact? I do, I do. I was asked to be a panelist, at one of the events to talk about kind of the story from having an initial idea to creating a company. And honestly, I swear I was only asked to be on that event. Cause I've got a British accent. But I played it hard. I, I chatted away.

Really turned up that accent for the event. Absolutely. And I swear maybe that's how I've ended up on a podcast as well. I'm not gonna lie, . And yeah, so it was, it was that, and that was such a wonderful way of meeting Jessica cuz it was truly. Such a natural and organic way. And I think that's something, Jessica, when you're talking about the connection and you know how you can build these peop people up and kind of introduce people.

It's always been so organic and natural. And I think so much of that is based on us being kind of thinking about education in similar. . Yeah, I mean, another thing that I recall about meeting you is that actually I was not investing yet. Like this is actually before we launched the fund. So it's also, you know, the kind of thing that I've noticed that I do and other investors in this space really do is kind of warehouse or like file away, introductions to people and you know, it could be six months, it could be a year.

Sometimes longer later, like, you'll either come back to that same person or something about what they were talking about will rise up again. And so it's, it's become like, oh, I think it's, it's just something that I do very naturally is to like, kind of, you know, do that filing away for a, a later date.

And, luckily, it was, and then it becomes a, a matter of timing too. Then it's like the right place at the right time. So I think we need to add more color here, right? Because our listeners probably did some reading up on our two guests, so they have some familiarity with the product and the company that you founded, Ali.

But why don't you talk us through, just in the same way Jessica has, you know, who are you, what has led you to education and the amazing, amazing product you've built? Oh, thank you. Yeah, so I, you know, came out of, school and college and was either going to become a pilot or a teacher. My dad is a pilot and my mom is a teacher, so I was really quite, kind of varied on my career choices, and decided the life of kind of globe trotting and sitting around the world.

It wasn't for me. And actually sitting in the classroom with 30, teenagers is what I was after. So I trained, to become a teacher. I've been teaching physics for the last 12 years, starting off in the UK and then I moved over here in New York and I've been working at a private school, for the last nine years over here where I've taught physics and also being a dean.

and I've always been somebody that's just got a notebook of ridiculous ideas that I have all these stupid inventions. But it was on a trip. I took 11 16-year-olds to Spain for two weeks. And oh my goodness, like it was a military, I'm like breathing heavy. Just thinking about that. Honest to grade

It was wild. And it was on the bus back from JFK back to Brooklyn. I was a shell of a woman. And I was like, there has to be a way to make this whole experience better and safer and easier. And so kind of came at it as a consumer myself, realized there wasn't anything out there. So, you know, my brain started ticking and.

Just kind of kept moving one step at a time, forward and forward. My idea started off as a PowerPoint presentation. I showed to colleagues and I was like, Hey, what do you think about this? And suddenly I realized I was onto something. So I kind of just kept pushing with it. And you know what started off as essentially a field trip app where we.

Aim to use technology to make, taking kids out the classroom safer and easier. Has actually kind of evolved over the last few years where we are really looking to build an experiential learning platform. Like the idea was let's get the trips that are already going out. Let's make them better. But now and kind of linked to what we're talking about, kind of education and the, the future of it is, I truly believe the future of education is getting kids out into the real world.

And so we actually want to create the tools that you can do that safely, effectively, and try and get them out as often as you possibly can. And that's, that's chap. . That's incredible. And I, before Jessica, you jump in. I just have to say now that everybody has heard what you've built, they can confirm along with Jessica and myself that your accent is not the reason you're here to

I mean, it helps right? . It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt . Sorry, Jessica, I think I cut you off. No, it it, it does make you so much, it makes you memorable. I'm also remembering, I think on that panel you might have also been the only woman entre. , to be presenting that day as well. So, uh, you know, I think that the exactly the pivot or the like, evolution of the product as you've, as you were first presenting it years ago at the New York EdTech Meetup and now where it is today is exactly the kind of, it's such a great illustration of the kind of company that Copper Wire is looking for.

because as you mentioned, it's really about the, the future of learning and you know, what are gonna be those. Not, not blue sky, even not moonshot ideas, like really things that can really help execute the kinds of pedagogies we know, help kids learn, and help adults learn as well. Like, and that's, that's sort of, that's the thesis around Copper Wire Ventures.

you know, we are fully focused on, women entrepreneurs, female founders, or seed level leaders in a company. That's kind of the eligibility of, of getting an investment from Copper Wire. , but the thesis is really around the future of learning and work and, and, you know, ways in which technologies can, can help us get there.

and, and I think since Covid, you know, faster than ever, it's really been accelerated by what we've gone through over the last couple years and in ways that I think many of us didn't even anticipate. Right? That acceleration, all of us entered in about two years ago to a, a very confusing and disruptive.

Couple months that have lasted now two years. Ali, how have you seen the past two years as either accelerating or decelerating or, or as Jessica named pivoting your products? I'd like you to, like, I think you kind of danced around it, but maybe specifically name that for, for our audience. Yeah, so I mean, I think in kind of first glance, it would be a glaring deceleration because of Covid.

You know, here we were creating an app. That was all about getting kids out on student travel. And along comes a pandemic and halts everything. So in many ways that kind of put a pin in everything. But I think what that actually allowed us to do in kind of. The converse way of accelerating is kind of, let's take a step back and really think about what we are trying to achieve here and let's kind of really hone in on our mission and what it is that we believe education is gonna be moving forward.

And that's where kind of this focus on experiential learning has become key. And I think something that was really interesting is having a conversation with, someone saying, who had kids, middle school, kids saying like, oh, I'm so happy that the kids are back in the classroom and, oh, the kids are back in the classroom.

Like, something that Covid has taught us is there's so many ways to incorporate technology and education can look so different now. And so it's like, okay, we've been rushing to get the kids back in the classroom, but what's going to change? And I think that's where Chaperone has gone from, okay, let's help things, you know, happen in.

Let's take the field trips that are happening and make them better. And that kind of specific pivot of actually, we really believe that education is at the forefront of getting kids into the real world. How can we encourage that and see that happen more often? And I think that was a really, really powerful pivot that came because of Covid and it came at the perfect time for us.

so. Both a deceleration and an acceleration and a pivot all at once, but you checked off every single box there. Now you know, Jessica, as you're listening to this, you obviously have skin in the game for Ali's success, as you do with all of the the different ventures that you fund. So how did this past two years feel for you, and what do you think came out of it like as a a 30, at a 30,000 foot level that informs decisions you're making in your future investments?

That's a great question. I mean, we literally launched our fund at the beginning of the pandemic. We official, we incorporated in January, 2020 and we actually wrote our first two checks in March of 2020. So it was at the exact moment that all of this was happening and you know, very scary time. Then similar to what Ali said, you know, have to put a kind of pin in it to see like where this is gonna go.

But immediately I think we realized, In terms of, how the, like, what the opportunities were going to be for a fund exactly like ours, that is focusing on education and technology during a pandemic when everybody had to pivot to remote learning, and figure out how to use technology to keep teaching and learning going during this time period.

and it's, it's just been. You know, I, people often will like joke with me about how excited I am about a global pandemic because it's just provided this phenomenal opportunity and playing field for, as Ali noted, like the just share exposure to different ways of, of teaching and learning that we're never, we couldn't imagine before this happened.

It's been a time of. Incredible creativity and resilience and experimentation, on a global scale. And I think that for us, you know, it's confirmed and validated a lot of the ideas that we had about the role technology could play ongoing. , in the broad education market. And it's also provided that encouragement from the investor community and the, the users, the teachers, the students themselves, about, you know, actually taking advantage of this time period.

So it's, there's a lot of opportunity and I think that, you know, as you said, from like a 30,000 foot perspective, it's just given us like even more, illuminated more problems to solve and have more companies, out there to. It's interesting because your perspective is one that's sort of look outside looking in, right?

And then like trying to find the, the best, ideas or maybe sometimes just the best people who are thinking critically and in innovative ways about the problems they're trying to solve. I'm wondering if you could share a little bit as three women on this call here about why the fund has taken a specific.

Interest in specifically women venture. ? Well, I mean, we launched to solve a problem. I mean, there's actually only, venture capital is a, is an enormous asset class right now. There's more money than ever pouring into venture. However,less than 2% of all venture backed startups are headed by women.so there's just an enormous disparity between, that's a big number, that's a small number or a, a big disparity as you name.

Exactly. It actually, it actually went down. So starting in 2019 it was, you know, 2.5% of venture back. Companies were female founded, and then it actually went down in 2020 and early 2021. We're starting to see a little bit more of like an uptick towards the end of 2021. Just from like, I think sheer focus on funding women entrepreneurs.

It's been a huge push, I think, not just for, you know, funds like mine, which are at the, the sort of what they call nano fund level, you know, sub 10 million funds. But even at like the high, the, you know, 15, 20, 100 million funds, you're seeing much more of an emphasis on sourcing and, backing, You know, entrepreneurs, you know, who are women or other underrepresented minorities in the space.

So finally there's a little bit of like spotlight on it. And that's exactly why we started. Just anecdotally, I come from a very male, my family has a family business and it's a very male dominated industry. They're in the steel business. And it was. Difficult for my sister and I to imagine ourselves, leading a company in that, in that industry.

And ironically and Ali, I'm, I, you probably find this to be true as well, you know, there's a ton of women who work in education, but there's actually not that many companies that are started by women, specifically in the edtech space. And just the same, there's not actually that many women who are leading educational.

So it's still quite, still quite common to see a very, like gender balanced or even female heavy, workforce in education. But the leadership in the administration is generally still male. So we're just trying to like, Call that out, you know, flip the switch on it. And, you, and, and also I will say also our fund is unique in the way that we are very early stage.

We typically, we are very often the first money in, uh, to help, start a company off. And we write small checks, which. Sometimes it's kind of ironic to, to understand this, but in the venture capital space, it's actually very hard to write a small check. You know, usually you actually have to write quite large checks to get the return, the multiples, on the money invested back to your own investors.

So, but we're really committed to, you know, being that zero to one money at the precede level. And, so we'll, we'll stay small and keep focusing on the, the demographic and the, the, the types of companies that we really wanna help get off the. So Ali, how did you make it into that two and a half percent or 2%, or whatever the number is kind of landed on, you know, today at the end of 2021.

How did, how did you kind of persevere through, or actually let's, let me back up. What do you see as the challenges that may make it difficult for women to be in your. I think that's, that's a great question. And you know, I have my, my senses and I'm sure much of it's anecdotal. But, you know, one of the things that I found is that when I started talking to people, like, oh, I've, I've got an idea.

This, this could be a business. You know, it, for me, I was this kind of not. Kind of dreaming, but just, you know, oh, well this is it. I never thought that I could actually make it happen. And I remember talking to a colleague of mine, she was like, no, no, no. Thi this is it. This is what you've gotta push forward with.

I love this. And I think kind of that biggest hurdle was just that belief that I was like, oh, well I can start my own business. I can do this. I can go out and I can get investment. And, you know, I think especially coming from the education background as a teacher, this was such a different wheelhouse.

but finding the resources and the people out there, and I honestly, I, I attribute it a lot to the fact that I've been able to find really good people and get really good advice over the years. And I think Jessica has been absolutely instrumental in that. And like she mentioned when I first met her, she hadn't started the fund yet.

so. We became friends. Like we would love to like just chat and catch up about, you know, this latest trend in education. What do you think about this? Oh, and let me tell you about Chaperone at the end. You know, it was such a, a great way of meeting somebody and just building those relationships and finding people who believe in you.

And when you say like, oh, I want to build. X, Y, and Z like going, yeah, go for it. As opposed to, oh, that's a lovely idea, aren't you? Aren't you special coming up with something like that? And I think that's something I still find sometimes holds me back is. . You know, I've, I've got my head around the fact that I've created a product that kind of makes taking kids on trips better.

But now we are working to actually try and change culture in schools and kind of change education. And for me, that's wild. And I've been, ooh, goodness me, like I'm this one loan person. Well, I'm not one loan person. I've got a great team around me, but you know that I'm talking in this way. And it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable sometimes having these lofty aspirations.

And I think sometimes women are told to, to stay in their lane, not necessarily talk the big talk. And that's something that, yeah, is, is a learning process that I, I always need to keep on going. But having the cheerleaders around you and having people like Jessica and you know, the, the right people who I can go, Hey, what about this?

They've been the ones that have pushed me and said, yeah, you go do it. And I, and. Well, I, I have to name this one piece, which is that feeling alone in any, any business, any education setting, whatever it may be, is, is really challenging. And so there's a theme that I've noticed as I've talked to different people who have founded tech companies and school leaders and just people doing great things in education, that connectivity is this central.

Line. And it's so great to hear that you've named that being a powerful factor. And also I wanna just thank you for your vulnerability because you know a lot of people that are listening to this today, whether they have ideas or, and they've actioned them or they haven't, that probably feels like an insurmountable wall for them.

And so I appreciate that as someone who is reached the level of success you have and has the big ideas that you've shared, and I'm sure there are many more in that notebook that you haven't shared yet that you're sharing. Your own kind of barriers are and how you've been working to overcome them.

It's also like so special and how unique and really exciting it is to find a teacher who is willing to take the leap into entrepreneurship because that's not an easy track, to take. And it's, it's critical, I think to really change education, change school culture as you said, to have those, to really get those teachers to start building products.

And I think that's something. I've often overlooked is, you know, I, I am a teacher. I don't, I don't have an MBA, I don't have a kind of corporate background or you know, or know all the fancy business acronyms. And I've always kind of viewed that as a bit of a deficit. But it was, I was talking actually to a potential investor and he was talking about kind of how unique it is to find founders who really just get the product and have like a real intuitive feel of what the customers want and all of that.

And as he was talking about that, I was like, hang. That's exactly what I've got. That's, that's the one piece exactly I am a hundred percent confident with, and I downplayed that so much because I've focused on kind of what are the areas that I don't have and those areas that I don't have. They're pretty easy to learn and I have learned over the years and there's multiple resources, but that kind of being ability to connect to your user and connect to the product and kind of get it in inverted coms, I.

That's where my kind of superpower of being a teacher has really come into, helping me on this end. So, Ali, you're not alone. I re I recently was sent the Wall Street Journal, the journal podcast to listen to. It's a brief, podcast, 18 minutes long, and it's called Why So Few Women Are CEOs. And the answer that they posit is not the theory about glass.

It's not about their families, it's not about stepping away, and it's because they aren't given the opportunity. This is the theory posited by this podcast and, and a larger research study that they put forth, which I'll happily share in conjunction with this podcast that we're listening, that we're recording today.

But the theory is that women are not given opportunities in their career journeys to have the business and financial acumen that are, it is required to launch and catapult an organization or business, but. That there are many things that can happen along someone's career path to give them that experience and that leadership in areas that they don't typically invest in, just by nature of what they are driven towards.

and I think it's a great listen, but it also highlights what you're naming here, that with enough drive and with enough motivation and with enough understanding of, of what the product is and where it goes, especially in edtech when you're a teacher, That can trump the other pieces that can be learned along the way because they're skills, those are skills you can learn.

Yeah. And you can't manufacture that life experience. That's the part that Absolutely. You can't just, you know, go to school and learn or, you know, pick up, you know, so quickly as maybe a p like reading a P&L i, you know, one thing that's emerged for us as we've been doing the investing work is. Just as you said, like you, you know, there's all these sort of deficits or, you know, feelings of not knowing enough before you get into something that, and I think that it's really not to over generalize about women, but I think women feel that very keenly like when they're, you know, really want to have a handle on something before they necessarily launch off.

And, and, you know, start something a hundred percent. And you know, the, the other thing that we recognize as being kind of a black box is venture invest. You know, itself, I don't think that there's that much information out there about exactly what are the criteria that investors are looking for, like what is even the structure of a deal.

these are things that I've learned just along the way, you know, in doing it deal by deal. But as it's really emerged that that's, that's almost more that, that information, that kind of exposure to what is market like, what is typical, what are. Entrepreneurs, mostly male entrepreneurs. What are they asking for when they are talking to investors?

and you know, just sort of sharing that information has kind of emerged as one of the value add that we can provide along with working capital. And I think it's been really powerful for a lot of the entrepreneurs that I've worked with to just have this information just to say like, this is what another entrepreneur's done.

This is the way that they've structured their fundraise. You know, fundraising itself is just a real challenge. There's a lot of nos, , there's mostly nos. And maybe just a couple key yeses that come to you. And, it's, it's really important to be able to share that information. And that's something that we've been trying to do across our portfolio.

It's really, you know, Ali actually has like, talked to a lot of the other, women entrepreneurs in our portfolio and vice versa. And I, I appreciate that. Cause I think it's, it's really almost like a peer to peer. Learning environment. If you can meet and hear from the other people who have done it before.

And what about our experience? Is that right? Like, have people that are seasoned in one area or another provide guidance with their expertise and then have everyone else connect along the way to lift each other up? Like a common theme in my life is rising tides lift all ships. If we feel that way about education in general, that what we're all doing serve students, why wouldn't we roll up our sleeves and help one another out and, and support each other in the areas of growth that we each individually have?

So I love that that's something you are intentionally doing. Copper Wire, Jessica, because I think that it's a superpower. It's a superpower to connect people and to help one another, and it makes this world a, a better place on behalf of students we serve. So why wouldn't we do that? Well, I'll say it's not that difficult.

I mean, it's really, there's a lot of competitiveness and, and I think, kind of the opposite. Sentiment that comes across in venture investing. Not so much in the edtech space. I feel like we're pretty collegial cuz we do have this bigger mission to kind of serve the, the ultimate user of these products.

Students, you know, of all ages, students, families, teachers, schools like that ecosystem. So it's less, I, you know, Shark Tank and more , more collaborative than. Niches within this, within venture investing, but for the most part, like there's a purposeful opaqueness to it. I've really had been just working hard to counterbalance that.

The one thing I find very bizarre about the whole kind of investment ecosystem. Is how you're supposed to get these kind of warm intros to investors and how kind of cold intros, like, oh, you'll never get a response. But for me, if you know someone who'll introduce you, then you're kind of part of that ecosystem.

And how are you? Creating diversity, how are you letting, opening the door and letting more people in? Cuz as soon as it's like, oh well you know him and they know you and whatever, you're just replicating the same old people who know everybody else. And that's something I know Jessica, your super mindful about, is putting your email address on the website, like inviting people to send you pictures, kind of getting that variety and I think that's so important and something.

It's always puzzled me when people talk about diversity, but then won't answer a cold intro email. Oh, I agree. I mean, I try to make accessibility part of the brand of our fund because it's, I mean, I never know when the next idea, where the next idea is gonna come from. To me, that's part of the, that's part of like the energy that I get out of this.

Meeting new people, hearing new ideas, imagining how to connect the dots between what one person is doing and another thing in the space that, that's like the work of it for me. Like that's where I, I kind of derive the most, pleasure and energy out of it. But yeah, it's, it's not as typical and it kind of reminds me a little bit of.

When I was teaching at Bank Street, I taught a lot of, obviously early childhood educators and many of those early career teachers, you know, they had great experiences growing up as students and that's why they want to become a teacher. And so they kind of perpetuate and really. , you know, replicate the, their own, their own experience from 20 plus years ago, of, you know, what the kindergarten classroom looked like or whatever the areas that they're teaching.

And to me, the, the whole point is to bring in the fresh new ways of doing things. So, I, I think it's great if you have a great experience and that drives you towards a certain profession, but you know, you have to also take the blinders off and, see what else is out there around you. I think that is a perfect segue to our last question here as we're wrapping up our time together.

which I wish we could just extend for days, but I wanna be respectful of every one of our listeners as well as our guests. What advice would you give an educator and or an entrepreneur in edtech, in the edtech space who's at the start of their journey? I think something that I would say is, Just keep plugging away and you never know where that break will come.

You'll never know what progress you make, but just kind of keep on taking steps. And I know with Chaperone, I, you know, it certainly hasn't been a linear path and I think it's, it's better for that. And I think that's true for educators and entrepreneurs just in general. And I do think if educators have good ideas for how they wanna innovate their classroom, We're so kind of focused on just like the school system, like go moving up within the school, bringing your ideas to your school, but to think about how can you actually extend beyond that.

And I would love to see more educators take the, the crazy path that I've taken of trying to break into this entrepreneur world. Cuz ultimately I do think that's gonna have a really positive impact on education. So yeah, make,make the move, make the jump. It's terrifying and it's wonderful.and for me, I would say, so you took the educator one, which I'm so glad, cuz I was gonna take the entrepreneur one anyway.

I would say for entrepreneurs today, really get out there and start to publish a little bit about what you're building and what you're thinking about. That's, you know, in addition to because, and at, you know, as we just discussed, like it's not as easy to be introduced to the people who might really help make your idea come to life.

But if you're putting yourself out there, people can find you. And that's, to me really the kind of, you know, benefit of social media and all the ways in which we are networked together in a ambient and, and convenient way. If you don't have to join a meetup or go to events or, you know, necessarily, you know, be living in the place where all of this seems to be happening, like a New York or a Silicon Valley, you know, you could be anywhere and really, Getting your ideas out there for the world to see and read and then you're identified with in some interesting way and build community around, you know, what your thoughts and ideas are.

I think that's really the best way to sort of get the start. And once, once you do that a little bit, like the manifesting part we talked about, like, then the, then the, I think the people who can help you make it happen will come to you.

That is some powerful stuff. I I am so in awe of just both of your journeys and, and, and where you are in that journey today because it's, we're not at the end of the journey obviously. We're still, we're still ideating and we're still advancing and by we, I mean you, so , I I think it's incredible. I, I, you know, throughout this conversation it has really stuck out to me just the.

Real thought that has been given to every decision each of you has made in your journeys in EdTech and around EdTech. And so I wanna say thank you as a fellow, ed Techer, myself. I think it is incredible to watch and learn from folks like you who are thinking on similar paths, but totally differently cuz I know our listeners will feel similarly.

So, thank you both so much for joining us today, Ali and Jessica, and for sharing your. No. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thank you for inviting us. I really appreciate it. And, and thank you, Ali, for joining. Cause I, and thank you Jessica inviting me. I be the best illustration of what we're trying to build.

For more information on both of our guests and the ventures that they're taking on, you'll be able to see that on our website, related to today's podcast. Thank you for all of you who tuned in to listen today, and we look forward to hearing you or you hearing us next time. Thanks for listening to the Learning Can't Wait podcast if you liked what you heard.

Please rate, review and share this episode. Be the first to know when we have a new episode by subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a suggestion for an episode, email us at podcast@itutor.com.