Jodie Buenning: E-Rate Program, Digital Equity, EdTech Advocacy

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Welcome to the Learning Can't Wait podcast of Fullmind. At Fullmind, our vision is to ensure every child has access to an exceptional education. Each episode, we will be joined by Pathfinders within and around the education space who are bringing about transformational change. On behalf of deserving students, I'm your host, Hayley Spira-Bauer. Our welcome back, everybody to the Learning Can't Wait podcast funding mini series. We have a little bit of a departure from what we've been talking about in our previous episodes, which is what happens if we dismantle the Department of Education. And today we're actually talking about a different topic with Jodie Buenning, the founder of Buenning Strategies. Welcome Jodie.

Jodie Buenning: Hi Hayley. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Well, I want to say thank you for coming to me and talking to me about this important topic which impacts, I mean almost every aspect of EdTech, which is the E-Rate.

Jodie Buenning: Yeah, the e

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Say E-Rate initiative. What do we say? E-Rate.

Jodie Buenning: E-Rate. Program.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Program. There we go. I should have known that probably, but that's why we need to have this conversation because I don't think enough people know enough about it. So you're here to teach us and talk to us about what's going on and maybe advise us what to pay attention to. Does that sound right?

Jodie Buenning: Sounds fantastic. Thank you so

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Much. No, thank you. And let's do this. Let's jump into why are you the person to talk to about this and how did you come to be the personal and professional version of yourself?

Jodie Buenning: Hayley, I love that you ask every guest that question because it forces you to pause and sort of reflect like, why am I here? What is my why? What is my purpose? And I love that question. And for me, if anyone who knows me knows I'm super passionate and I can get a little emotional about things. But I will tell you one of the things that a lot of people don't know about me is that I grew up on a small family farm in the middle of the country, little state called South Dakota. But what I learned growing up on the farm is that hard work, determination, focus, and really a commitment to things is really a way to seeing a path to success. And so for me, I think I've carried a lot of those principles forward as an adult and as a professional individual. And one of the things that has shaped me as a profession has been my commitment to education technology, my commitment to making sure all kids have access to education, partly because I think there's so much opportunity and I think part of me wants to give students today what I feel like I maybe missed out on because I grew up in a pretty small isolated rural community. So it's a mix of all those things, but I think that's the best answer I have for everyone today.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: So much of our background shapes the story of who we are, and I appreciate that you grew up in, I'm assuming a very rural area. Is that accurate?

Jodie Buenning: Yep. Yes.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: You lived on a farm. My kids always show me the difference between rural, suburban and urban. That's what they learned in school and farm is rural. So you grew up in a rural environment, but now you live in Washington DC and you have done some really important work to ensure that your vision for yourself of passionate equity and passionate education warrior has come to life. So talk to us about E-Rate. How are you involved in the E-Rate program and what's going on right now?

Jodie Buenning: Yeah,I feel like E-Rate is my third child.I'm not going to lie. I saw the program kind of in the early stages of when the program started as a legislative part of a legislative effort to modernize the Telecommunications Act of 1996, and sort of saw it all the way through on the policymaking side of the house to the FCC, and then really helped implement it when it was passed. The rules were written at the FCC for the program to go into place. So there's a lot of folks who are still involved in the education technology world that might remember me as a young professional, seven months pregnant with my first child out there, helping school administrators, technology leaders in school districts figure out how to fill out their E-Rate application. And the early days, 26, 27 years ago, my daughter's 26 now, so E-Rate is 27 years. But in the early days we were filling it out and there were a lot of questions about how to fill out this very new program. So the application for the funds for this very new program. So my connection to E-Rate goes way back. So yeah, that's where my involvement started.

[05:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** I love it. So what is the E-Rate program? You're saying that people are filling out these forms. What is the E-Rate program enabling and why do schools, libraries, and edtech companies, why should they care about it?

Jodie Buenning: Yeah, simply put the E-Rate program, it is a program. It gives equitable access to the internet and essential technology to schools and libraries. It was created really as part of a way to get broadband and internet access deployed to the most rural remote communities and to be a great equalizer. I mean, that's really what universal service is as a telecom program. But E-Rate is really specifically focused on how do we equitably provide schools and communities and communities through libraries, affordable internet access, affordable broadband access, and all of the connectivity to make those connections come to life, like your networking services and all that. So that's essentially what the program is about, equitable access to modern communication.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: And so why is it in duress? What's going on? That's not related to the other topic we're talking about with the guests on this funding miniseries, but what's happening with the current challenges to the E-Rate program?

Jodie Buenning: Yeah, I feel like the E-Rate program is always, not always, but it's been looked at so many times. When we first launched the program in 96, the courts took a look at it and said, is this constitutional? Is it an overreach of Congress to have made this act? And the courts back in 96 said, no, it's not. So we went ahead, cheerfully put this program in place. Schools have learned to trust the program. They have faith in the funding. It has a reputation of really delivering powerful impact and powerful support to schools and districts and libraries across the country. What's happening today and why are we talking about E-Rate today is because the courts have been asked to take another look at the program to say, is it constitutional? Has Congress and has the FCC in implementing the E-Rate gone too far? And I think that's the big question. It's in front of the Supreme Court in March. They're going to take a look at the arguments and make a determination of to whether or not E-Rate as part of universal service is constitutional. ([07:56](https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rev.com%2Ftranscript-editor%2Fshared%2FGjcKdpeUjKUKfkqw1JafurlSFoaMDFLtacy34p2epBwcs2f-URwyzVqfo59LinCxyv7ANCLdqmOcPfu8NSW2oXShdvw%3FloadFrom%3DDocumentDeeplink%26ts%3D476.9)): Having been on this journey with the E-Rate for so many decades, I have every confidence that it is, but the world does change. And so I think that's why I think it's healthy to have this conversation. It's healthy to look at it. But I think one of the things that I wanted to share with you and to everyone who listens to your podcast, Hayley, is that the E-Rate is something that was put together with a lot of input from all stakeholders. So it's a kind of a complicated program, which we can go into the details, but I think to simplify things, what it allows for is for local telecommunications and internet providers to serve their local communities because it offsets the cost of delivering high quality, high speed broadband, internet access to communities that otherwise are really expensive to serve. So it is a dirty word called subsidies, but it is sort of subsidized. But I think you look it as it's a really great equalizer and a public good. It's what it's been delivering on. ([09:03](https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rev.com%2Ftranscript-editor%2Fshared%2F2_p9SxqenJSXrligrRQM2rQjk89g16kpSZBIuE0BToPLKpmupygyDWpP3Z6bawrdbga7RkWPRyQ5q4pmfDHUBD3fTVU%3FloadFrom%3DDocumentDeeplink%26ts%3D543.06)): When it was put together, we had a lot of input from industry, we had a lot of input from the community, we had a lot of input from all stakeholders. So as we go into this next phase of the E-Rate, whatever it is or isn't, however the Supreme Court looks at it and what the report is from the courts, I think one thing that I really hope is that the stakeholders, the benefactors, the education leaders, the students, the community leaders, the librarians, all are heard. When we go into the discussions of if we need to change the program, what do those changes need to be for the future of the people It really serves. And it isn't just business and it isn't just big business, it's small business. And I think that's the other sort of third leg of the stool is that we have to not squeeze out the small rural telco providers that really serve their local communities. Super important audience for us as well.

[10:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** Yeah. So let's play this out. We'll play it out both ways. So first we'll start with E-Rate stays in place. What could we expect if that happens, what can we expect? Do you think there'll be continued efforts to reduce E-Rate or eliminate E-Rate, or do you think that will be the end of the conversation?

Jodie Buenning: I would hope it would finally go away and that we finally would accept it and we'd finally start to figure out how do we really lean into all the benefits that E-Rate has delivered? And I think that we are in the edtech community, which is really the community, Hayley you and I live in. It is where education companies, we think that schools are connected and we expect them to be connected. As we bring new tools to the market, we think about the jobs and the careers students need to be prepared for. They need to be prepared for how to live in a world where we're so interconnected and it's technology that delivers that. It's connectivity, it's broadband, it's all those things. But one of the changes that's been happening over the years is that schools have a greater need to have cybersecurity measures in place. ([11:18](https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rev.com%2Ftranscript-editor%2Fshared%2F150VOjvMaqdpJfS5DB-qlCdbvdhlkfCql_oWfMaU0ur3pmnAPHq4mreMpDrUfxywWmFBvFLT9f6uYUgUv2Wb16Wl0Mc%3FloadFrom%3DDocumentDeeplink%26ts%3D678.54)): And without the E-Rate, some of those things will go away. So let's play this out. If it stays in place, I think we're going to see safer schools, better connected schools. We're going to see a greater access to opportunity for kids that maybe they do grow up in a rural community, or maybe they're in an inner city, but they still don't have reliable access. They can go to their public library or they know their school has access, maybe they don't have it at home. So I think we have stability and we can trust that all young learners, all elderly that rely on libraries for internet access, that we all can stay connected. ([12:02](https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rev.com%2Ftranscript-editor%2Fshared%2F9L4YqIfe4Tw5jiP-1Ex_O_jK0z3lim9cGXJedJM_R1vVrt0xrUlIe_dawBnlqES4reROT5DxLvkl0Xwsq-O5mnwnZno%3FloadFrom%3DDocumentDeeplink%26ts%3D722.8)): I'm going to go off on a little bit of a bird walk here in a tangent, but I was talking to a colleague of mine and I'm like, well, let's just talk about universal service. Do we need to open it up and look at it? And when you think about universal service has been around since 1930 E-Rate is part of it, and E-Rate came into universal service in the mid 1990s, 1996 with the Telecom Act. If you go across, if you travel internationally, you go to Europe, you go to Asia, it's not a given that you're going to have Wi-Fi. It's not a given that you're going to have broadband access when you're skiing in the Alps or if you're on a boat or hiking in India or wherever you might be. The one thing that the US has always done is we've realized early on to thrive and be a strong economy is that we need to get our people connected and we need to keep modernizing our infrastructure. If this piece goes away, how do we modernize schools in an equitable way? How do we keep our schools on the cutting edge of being competitive in a global marketplace? I think these are some of the bigger weightier issues at hand, and I hope people will sit back and think about that a little bit. So that's my hope.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: You've painted us a picture for what happens if the E-Rate program stays as is. Let's go down the other pathway. Let's say they restructure the E-Rate program. What are some potential impacts of a restructuring?

Jodie Buenning: Yeah, I think some potential impacts could be greater burden on the states to implement a pretty complex program. I think you run the risk of learning really being disrupted. I think in the worst case scenarios,I would say learning could go dark in some communities because schools might not be able to make up that funding gap.They rely on the support from E-Rate to keep digital learning switched on in their schools. Clearly these are sort of very dramatic statements, but downstream politics or downstream impact, these could be some of the things we could be looking at is rural and remote communities that are very hard to serve could really lose out.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: So assuming we have an audience of people who like to get involved and to make sure that E-Rate stays as is and gets to continue to impact communities the way that it has been for the past 26 years, what should they do?

Jodie Buenning: I really think what we need to do as an education community, as we really need to celebrate our wins a bit more. I thinkeducators are very humble soulsand the impact they make in the classroom, day in, day out, the impact that principals make in their communities, it can easily be overlooked by all the perceptions of things that aren't going. So I think let's talk about what's working really well. Let's talk about those aha moments. Let's talk about how students are really connecting with each other or they're learning the skills they're going to need to thrive. They're applying their passions to different kind of entrepreneurial kind of local entrepreneurial kind of programs. But I think what we need to do is we need to tell the stories, the success stories about what does digital learning look like today? What is it producing? How is it helping students prepare? How does it take a bit of the burden off of teachers and for school leaders? What does it mean for you in terms of being to run a safe and secure school? ([15:50](https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rev.com%2Ftranscript-editor%2Fshared%2Fs3PtRJLZkCr1M6fNZRT83vBet-gnbwxa7tgskzyLAVJybvX35w0F4DN0P64P7wtjGjsYvGoo-gfzZh-XScftzmc5PKs%3FloadFrom%3DDocumentDeeplink%26ts%3D950)): Superintendents are running many businesses on a budget that's much less than what a private sector business would have. E-Rate helps make sure that they can do the things they need to do to make sure when kids go online in a school network that they're safe and protected. So I think they need to speak out. They need to talk about what's working really well for them. I think they should join the advocacy efforts of their education groups, whether that's your principal association, your superintendent association, I know the Consortium for School Networking, the state edtech directors, SETDA, ASCD, all of the National Education membership organizations have been behind E-Rate. Chime in, share your story with your colleagues, join those advocacy efforts, I think and just be heard.

[15:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** I read a recent piece from EdWeek from March 20th entitled, Schools Fear Funding Loss as Supreme Court Weighs E-Rate Case. And it gave the same advice that you just gave here, which is there's advocacy groups that are bringing together various folks to share their stories and talk about their impact. And the piece itself highlighted districts across the US and how they use E-Rate and how vital it is for their success. So you are in good company with your suggestion here from what I've been reading.

Jodie Buenning: Absolutely. I would add one other thing to that, and I think as just an American citizen, we forget that we do have a voice. So write to your local congressional member and your state senator and your governor, tell them, invite them to your school or district because if they don't know and if we can't show and if we're not telling the impact, then how can they advocate for us? So I think just the power of your own voice to the people who are there to serve you, I think is important as well.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: What are you paying attention to right now for this topic? And I think about the news sources I read and where I'm keeping my attention, and I mean, you live in the world of PR and comms, so what are you looking at right now to help figure out the way of the win, so to speak?

Jodie Buenning: Yeah, I'm probably reading way too many things, but I kind of scan, I kind of watch across the board. You've mentioned EdWeek, certainly there. I mean, all of the education trade publications are tracking this and they're all aware of what's happening with this program. I think I've already mentioned your community and so lean into your community, but I also think it's really important just to have a conversation, pick up the phone, call your colleagues, see what they're doing. I think sometimes we rely too much on what we read online or what we read in the news we might read in our social media communities. But I think challenge yourself to kind of get outside of your comfort zone. Before we started our conversation, I said to myself, well, who haven't I talked to about the program in a long time? That's really in the trenches of implementation. And so I myself took some of that advice and I went and I called a few people and having real conversation does kind of help you to challenge your predispose opinions of things.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: I appreciate that. Right now, the world is very fractured that we live in, and conversation does help to clarify and also help you find allies and solidify action. I'm a big fan of not being shy about talking about hard things and making sure that your voice is heard. And like you said earlier, educators tend to be humble folk and not always speak up. So this is as good a time as any to do that.

[20:00] **Jodie Buenning:** Agreed, agreed.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Jodie, I'm wondering as a final question, I normally ask, what advice would you give a teacher starting their career today? But I'm going to ask you a little bit of a twist on that. What advice would you give a rural school leader who may have to have a contingency plan if the E-Rate restructuring goes into effect?

Jodie Buenning: We know education is very local, and that's always been the case. So no matter what happens at the federal level, education is still local community issue. So I think if this program somehow becomes less stable than it has been, I would say create your own community group. Reach out, reach out to your local businesses, your local community groups, build that local network around your school community and make sure you take care of your home. I think that's one of the best things I think a school leader can do. And the other thing, we didn't get into this Hayley, but the other thing that the E-Rate does is it does invite school leaders to have that dialogue and conversation with their telecom providers. They're broadband providers, they're internet providers, they're network providers, and every year when they apply for their E-Rate funds, they have this conversation. So they've been building these relationships up. So I think work together with your community to build that contingency plan and then share what works about your contingent plan with your community, larger education community so others can learn.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Awesome. Jodie, you have been a wealth of information and given some really excellent history on the origins of E-Rate and where we are living in today. And I appreciate you educating me and our audience about a really, really important topic.

Jodie Buenning: It's such a pleasure to have been here today. Thank you so, so much for bringing me onto the show.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: It's my pleasure. And thank you everybody for tuning in today. Thanks for listening to the Learning Can't Wait podcast. If you like what you heard, please rate, review and share this episode. Be the first to know when we have a new episode by subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a suggestion for an episode, email us at podcast@fullmindlearning.com.