Karl Rectanus: Federal Education Funding, Evidence-based Interventions, EdTech, ESSA

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Welcome back everybody to the Learning Can't Wait. Podcast season 4. I am very excited to introduce you to today's esteemed guest. Someone that I admire and have followed their career for quite a while. And is Karl Rectanus? The senior vice president of Global K-12 Strategy at Instructure and co-founder and CEO of LearnPlatform. Karl, welcome to the podcast I am very eager to pick your brain about a variety of topics, most notably around the topic of education at tech and research, which I think you know something about. Maybe. Let's see, we're all on the edge of our seats. Well, Karl, why don't you start us off by telling us how you came to be the personal and professional version of yourself?

Karl Rectanus: Oh, what a great question. So my parents were educators. A lot of my family were educators. Here and overseas. And so that was a family business. Right? So I I was raised by a single mother in the South, raising 2 boys on a teacher's salary which can give you a sense of you know my situation, and ended up teaching I got a secondary education, English and history degree from UNC Chapel Hill, and so I taught here and in Japan overseas. Grandma says we were born with itchy feet. So we travel a lot of lived and worked and studied in about a dozen different countries. But I actually became a CFO for schools. I moved into administration the first year. Charter schools were getting started in North Carolina, and the reason I did that was because I felt like the back office was sort of trying. It like was having an outsized impact on what we were trying to do in the classroom. And I wanted to understand, you know, how to get more money, more resources. Let teachers do the things that they wanted to do. And learned to talk. You know, the Charter School movement was at the time very nascent. Nobody knew who was wearing white hats and black hats how the systems was set up, and I learned a ton because I got a chance at a very early age to engage. You know. Not just with a K-8 core knowledge, you know. Set of schools I was. We were pulling from 5 different districts at the time, and that's how they felt like they felt like we were taking their students and their money. We were working directly with the State as an independent school district. So I was engaging in the State education agencies and learned a lot about what motivated and drove the system. And so since then, and after coming back to the States after traveling and studying and working as in education I got the entrepreneurial bug and have launched for successful education innovation organizations. There's some others in the trash but, as you mentioned earlier, the most recent one was, LearnPlatform, but the through line on all of them has been, how to sort of approach and help the education system systematically improve outcomes for all not just for those who have access, but for underrepresented to and and others that you, you know. For me. Education was a pathway out. And I want that to be a pathway out for everybody. But that wasn't the way the system was set up and if we could work inside, outside and through the system to make it more effective for everybody, I think that's better not just for those who have been under served but for society, for our economy, for everyone. And that's been the through line to the work that I've been focused on.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: How interesting that your like first journey out of the classroom was in the, as you said in the back office, to see how the purse strings were really having such an impact on the classroom. You know. I imagine, that your CFO hat that you were at the top of your out of classroom career has played a particular import as you study and look at the financial landscape Federal kind of funding that's going on right now in the education space today. What's your take on the influx of Federal dollars, the fiscal cliff that's approaching, and even your through line of how this impacts equity for students across the country.

Karl Rectanus: Great question, I mean, right? Method Man would tell us that cash rules everything around me. Right? It's important to understand. So it's important to consider. I think the The other truth that I've learned over a career or come to believe is that when it comes to financial decisions that includes procurement and others in education. They're motivated right now. The system is motivated by 3 things, and it tends to be in this order. The first one is fear. It is, the fear of. You know getting in the paper for the wrong thing. It is the fear of cyber attacks is fear of. You know, for safety, you know, fear is is a a huge motivator.: The fear of losing one's job. You know, those are. Those are big motivators. That's the first. The second is regulation. Right? So you know, we're required to test, or we're required to do X or Y title. One says that this is how this should work. And so I think that's a great idea. But we have to do it this way. Right? So regulation is the second motivator for those decisions. And the third is aspiration. What's the best for kids like this is why we're here. This is what the things that frankly motivated me and you and others to move into education is to do what's better, to help society and help teachers save time and do those other things, and not to say that that's not a huge motivator, for every day work and the focus. But when it comes to financial decisions and education, what I've come to see time and time again in terms of pattern recognition from the back office of the front is: fear will trump, regulation, regulation will trump app aspiration. But when those 3 things work together you can get some pretty powerful systemic change. And so I think, if to go back to your question, as we think about ESSA and a pending cliff There are some very real fears that activated this right. Covid a closure of school learning. Pauses on learning things like that. Safety. Obviously, health. Well, being the State of North Carolina, which is where I happen to be based. The school system was the largest restaurant in 2,020 they delivered more meals than any restaurant or chain combined. Right? You know they are the social safety net for a lot of folks that's a fear situation right? But as we look at this cliff and the funding that's happened, and we think about where we are now It also opened our eyes to things like social emotional wellness.It opened our eyes to you know what teachers are dealing with. It opened our eyes to the to the needs that are, you know, really, if we're going to move to the next level. And I think. ESSA, which uses the term evidence based as an example, multiple times it said, Hey, spend this money on what you need, but have evidence for how it's working. And if it's working. And, by the way, that's actually, you know the law within the Every Student Succeeds Act the the elementary and secondary you. You know. Law, that rules the land. That's how we're gonna make these decisions. And that's that wasn't in in writing before, you know. And so you've got this combination of fear and regulation right? That is motivating how people are going to make these decisions there. I'm hopeful that they will make them with, you know, using evidence.I'm hopeful that they will be making these decisions. And we're seeing this pattern, I think, but to address very real fears of not having enough teachers.of not of the teachers we do have.taking an undue burden with their own, you know. Physical and emotional health. I think the opportunity to leverage this work. You, you know, through that fear and regulation, is there? There's no doubt about those things. If we can harness that to move towards aspiration that is.having a tech that works more effectively, having, you know, you know, supporting educators to be motivated to be an education, to be able to serve more people, to be able to use these tools, to leverage great teaching and learning in the right directions. I think we've got a real opportunity to improve the system

[10:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** You had named there something that I don't believe everybody fully knows, because not everybody understands the Federal laws as well as some of the folks that are in this this part of the sector like yourself. So you talked about how evidence was not new, ESSA did. In my opinion, humble opinion accelerate people's attention to evidence. But let's talk about that arc a little bit, because you obviously were at LearnPlatform. You co-founded, LearnPlatform you obviously knew that evidence was important when it related to a tech.So let's talk about the arc of ESSA evidence.and really get to why you started our platform, and how you've seen the attention on evidence evolve over the past 5 years.

Karl Rectanus: Sure it's really 2 parallel stories, right? The from a regulation standpoint. And then I'll share a little bit about where LearnPlatform came from, and why, You know those stories started to connect. And and I agree with you, Hayley. There's been a massive acceleration. That's not you, you you know. That's not opinion. The facts are very clear on that But before the Every Student Succeeds Act which replace No Child Left Behind at the end of the Obama Administration 2,015. It was bipartisan supported Bill to update to how we fund K-12, education from a Federal level programs like Title I which is for underserved communities and schools.Title I Title I, the Federal dollars that go to States to be distributed for this work. Prior to that we had No Child Left Behind, which had a pretty, you know, clear focus on assessment. But when it came to research you know, the US Has not invested in education, research, and development like it does in every other sector. Right? So since World War 2 if you look at defense, transportation, health care, all these other sectors that are systemic and important energy. Since World War II on average, you've had 4 to 6 compounded improving investment for the last. You, you know, 70 plus years. So you're now talking about sort of 12,000 that goes into this. More goes into research and development and transportation or defense. And that's why we're a leader in the US On those things. But in education we didn't start investing in education research until 2,001 with the creation of a different law called ESRA. But Institute for Education Sciences, was created the Department of Education Arm. And fundamentally you know, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year, and they are required to only focus traditionally, they were required to only focus on randomized control trials. You may have heard of the What Works Clearinghouse, or sometimes called RCT. Oft oftentimes referred to as the gold standard and research. Well, in education. This, it's really hard to do. Randomized control trials. You know, in a randomized control trial. Some people are getting an intervention, you know. If you're in pharmaceuticals, you, you know some people get the placebo. Some people get the medicine, and then you study what happens and make those. That's, you know. But that has to happen at random. The idea of delivering, you know, with some kids getting a good thing in a in a math tool, or or be, you know, who knows? That's really hard to manage. There's some ethical questions, but fundamentally. You, you know, if you look at it, it it costs too much. It takes too long. It's hard to read, and the and the situation is such that it's primarily focused on academic bench science as opposed to, you know, informing development. So it's more on the R. Than the D education, R. And D is mostly on our and traditionally so fast forward to ESSA. And you know, to make it. In a long story short, as it outlines 4 levels of evidence which provides a regulatory framework for folks to work up to randomize control trials which is called strong evidence. But now, within ESSA, they can do things. Search, demonstrate rationale. That's early stage, you know, logic models that are based on the existing science. That's how we stand on the backs of, you know, smart learning, science and expertise. The next stage which is called promising is You usually comparative study. You know, could be core of of usually comparative studies, that is, when more people do it. Do we see more things happening right? And then we've got this quasi experimental which is called moderate evidence, and moderate evidence is a quasi experimental, which means it's got a control group and a group that receives the intervention. But it's not randomized. It's targeted so you can. You can do these more quickly. It'll or cost, etc. And so every student succeeds. Act says that all, all Federal dollars should go to evidence based interventions. But it counts all 4 of these as evidence. So you don't ever have to do an RCT. It gives you an on ramp for any organization and intervention to start doing that. And what's happened, you know, that's part of what was happening in parallel to our work. I'll pause, and I could share a little bit more about where LearnPlatform came from, but from a policy standpoint, you know that provided a regulatory care it as well as a bit of a stick to say, Hey. If we're gonna fund this stuff with Federal dollars, let's let's figure out if it's actually helping kids learn. And even if it's at, you know, very basic levels of evidence that still counts as evidence, right? And let's let's go do this more.

[15:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** I I feel so relieved every time I have someoneremind me that RCT, as it's challenges from the moral ethical, I think, when I this is my own experience. But you and I have spoken before about my own passion for accountability, and I've been evidence-based work in education at Tech specifically where I live.and I think I felt for a while until I started meeting with folks from your from your organization, and even some folks that we had on our own team that I had to get an RCT. Study. I had to do it. It's the gold standard like you said, but I feel relieved hearing that this, you know, I always feel guilty about it. Well, what if we know the intervention works? Then? What are we doing to the other students who aren't receiving it?How how would those families feel? How would the teachers feel? It would just it would be such an ethical quandary.

Karl Rectanus: I think it's possible. I know it's possible people are doing it. We do it. But I think that well, and if you to take it back into and to connect these dots that you have and others is you, you know, when I was doing due diligence for what eventually became LearnPlatform. What we realized is that teachers in the classroom I did this. You did this.our entrepreneurs. They are researchers. They are constantly trying to serve a very disparate group of customers or students, and they are actively engaging and testing things all the time. And they are learning what's working and what's not working for their kids. And the reality is that information that evidence that data is gone into the ether right? Because we weren't collecting it. This was in 2,01312, 13. And what led to us launching LearnPlatform in 2,014 was, you know, focus on. We're gonna help folks understand what they're using that's working best for them. How do we expand. You know, access to the teaching and technology that works best for individual students. How do we activate and engage not only with educators to be able to collect that sort of observational or the, you know, feedback in a meaningful way. So we had a research. You know, we were a research based research, first. For benefit organization. So we are focus, which meant we were for profit. But we could focus on more than just profit when we drove the business. It's a governance model that makes a lot of sense in the education space and elsewhere. But our researchers identified the 8 most important criteria for teachers when they try by and use these tools. And so first we started collecting that type of information. Then we started then we built something called impact, which is our rapid cycle evaluation engine. It is essentially takes and connects all this data from you know, trusted spaces usage data. Demographic information, achievement data test scores. Cost. You know, pricing data. And we built some technology before it was call machine learning or AI to be able to run.you know, specifically more and more rigorous analyses. Without having a Phd to equip teachers and educators to sort of say, hey, run at that. You know what is now called, you know, a level 3 or level 4 level 2. It would decide what it was going to run with the data it had and provide visualization so that administrators could say, Hey, with this. The math tool, we're getting this type of usage. And when students that you, you know, are in this groups, right? That are third grade. English language learners, or you, you, you know, in these different groups. This is what happens. This is what their growth looks like. This is what was generally called effect size we're seeing. And so being able to do that in a matter of hours, minutes instead of months and years. Started to equip districts to make decisions within, you know, for for these kids, not for kids that might look like these kids in the future or elsewhere, but for their students. And it started to change decision making with districts and states at the same time. So you had this parallel run from 2,014 up to the Covid Era, where you know, you started to see both regulation and the reality on the ground. You know it can. It can be done? And so there was belief in the system and fast forward to today. You know, our team has equipped both districts, States, and we can talk a little bit about our evidence as a service work with providers. But before I would say, I think by May of last of this year districts and States had run 4 times as many analyses than they did all of last year using our platform. We're on pace for to do 10x the amount of evidence and put that into, you know the market, so that you know whether you're a provider or a district administrator or policy maker. You can have evidence and start to have this information atat the speed of decision making, not at the speed of the ivory tower.

[20:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** I appreciate the depth at which you just shared the journey to the rapid proliferation of data, creation, and consumption that LearnPlatform has afforded various stakeholders. I'm so like honestly inspired by that. And I also believe that because there has been this emphasis that we alluded to earlier of us are on evidence and just national attention. The media has also really played a part here as well. I. The recent stories over the past couple of months of you're calling them providers, that's a word I don't use very often vendors at tech companies, etc., because of the necessity of knowing if dollars are impactful, and school sets savviness to that. There's been a real change in time, and how the media is studying writing about various companies. And I find that I find that, like partnering, it's everybody's kind of on the page. Same page with. We have to make sure what we're doing is working for children. There's a ton of money here.

Karl Rectanus: Yeah. Yeah, I think that you know. It's a great point. And the reality is even in the words that you mentioned. You know, providers, vendors, companies for profit, providers, companies, right?This education has been a low trust market for a long time.you you know us and them nonprofit for profit. There's these. What I would consider false dichotomies based on tax status, right? Not business model, not impact, not evidence. Based on tax status. Oh, your for prop. Oh, you're a company! Oh, you're a nonprofit, you must be, you know, non-profit good, you, you know. Schools good vendors bad like. There's this easy pathway. But the reality is like, I've bought tens of millions of dollars of of technology and interventions as a school leader. I've sold. You know, way more than that. As a provider. It's hard for everybody.and I don't engage with folks. Look in every market. You're gonna have bad actors there, there will be people that are ha lack integrity. Folks who, you know, want to rob the bank. There, you you know. Let's go to, you know. Energy, you know. Enron transport, I mean, like you can. You can do all sorts of things in every sector.: But the reality is most of the folks that we engage with, including on the private. You know, Provider side. They want to do what's best for kids. They want to drive. What's what helps teachers? They, you know, they want to do and help society, and they want to win because they are. But traditionally, you know. Imagine, you know, a product leader or a sales leader, you know, they can't get a return phone call on. Why, we didn't move forward with the pilot. Or, you know, has no visibility to if they're actually implementing the tools that we want it or you, you know, doesn't know what's going on on the other side of the fence. And so I think, you know, it's hard for both sides, and there's certainly been over. Promise there's been. You know, the system is reinforced traditionally, you know, marketing over meaning and impact the you know. Nobody get fired for hiring. IBM, we, the largest publishers traditionally, because again, fear based decision making But now, people are starting to see and engage together as partners on you know, how do we? How do we get better outcomes? And that's one of the things that we did was really work hard at LearnPlatform to ensure that we remain agnostic, that we helped the demand side become more demanding, and we waited. We didn't launch any of our services for providers until districts and State said, Yes, please help providers make better products. And that happened in after Covid, they said, Look, we really, we're overwhelmed. We're using Now, last year that you know every school district use over 2,500 different edtech products

[25:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** Last year like that's insane to keep, you can. And and for the record I just pulled up your report because I was trying to remember the exact number. I knew you'd know it. But yeah, that's also like of200 to 200 tool increase from 2 years prioralready tipped over the 2 K mark, which I learned because you all put out these reports. But tell us how many products schools are using? That is. I mean, I can't remember the password to my email address. Little, I mean, thank gosh, there's single sign on in schools these days. But still.: okay. How

Karl Rectanus: Well? And I were quickly. You know, ironically. And we remember Post Covid, all parents like getting overwhelmed by how do we get to signed on? How do we set this up? You know.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: On average, most school districts are using more than one single sign on provider. Oh, oh, I'm well aware, because I have to make sure that my organization has access to them these days. I I can't find my own thing. I'm sorry it's 3 different apps. I'm I. It's just unbelievable. You know the the number, the number of tools component, I think, is a is a really interestingstudy in supply and demand. I also think that in 2 years. So it's August. We're recording this in August 2,023, I think in 2 years. I'm going to be very curious what that number is, and specifically segmented by individual market when this tranche of money is is less relevant. I'm curious if it will change. I don't have a I have clearly somewhat of a prediction, but based on my tone, but I am. I am really curious to see what that number looks like when learn, LearnPlatform and then structure publishes that report in a couple of years.

Karl Rectanus: Why, I probably think it's going to be higher than you think it's going to be. It is, because the number of tools that each individual student or teacher engaged with went down. So now, what that means is what's happening and what I think I we're seeing is sort of the platformization of this work. So you're starting to see, you know from that's what they we would say from the education, from the technology side. But you know, what gives me hope is that that means students and teachers might be activating more agency on which these tools they're engaging with. They're not engaging with all of them. The numbers actually went down for those individuals. But at an organizational level we're requiring our districts to manage all of these so that they can use these personalized tools, you know, for their third grade. English language learners, as well as a different tool for their third grade high achieving math students, or, you know, supplementary tools, or for different parts of the you know, learning process. So I think what we're going to see. And certainly the initial trend looks like to me like an increased burden or responsibility on organizations to provide a high functioning ecosystem that is safe. That is, you know. Takes care of student data privacy that is efficient.but that also is diverse is is able to deliver against this. You know what is becoming, you know, a much more diverse student population that every public school system is is trying to support.

[30:00] **Hayley Spira-Bauer:** I love hope like that. And I'm so. And I'm so grateful. You're naming this piece about personalization. Because I think that's what edtech allows for. And I think making teachers lives easier is ultimately where we should all be so that teachers can focus on their craft and focus on the individual students in front of them. And so I love that that is where we're unfortunately wrapping up our time today. That is an incredibly incredibly great note to kind of land on before I ask you my last question. And that question is is about teachers, and it is what advice, Karl, would you give a teacher who is beginning their career today?

Karl Rectanus: Well, first off. Thank you. Teachers, for your service, for your commitment. You know, learning. Ultimately, you know, the human learning. Science is most motivated by relationship. I mean, the science shows that. And so without educators, you know, even as we think about AI as we think about, you know, new technologies.there's nothing more impactful than an educator.If you are starting right now. The this is a this is a marathon, not a sprint. So take care of yourself. My advice is to engage in a way that you can ensure self-care and and ask for help to be able to do that. And I I appreciate the service is a very personal sort of question. And commentary for me. But we are in a place where we need more educators. And I can't end without saying very clearly we need to take care of educators. Financially, we need to take care of educators in a way that respects and supports them, to grow and emotionally, and a mentally so anything we can do to advocate to support policymakers and others to make sure that the education profession is held in the esteem that it should be, and likely hasn't been in many States. We will do but make sure you're taking care of yourself and asking for help where you need it.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Oh, that is such a beautiful message and such strong acknowledgment of the incredible work that our teachers do, and the sacrifices they make to be their very best. And I appreciate how you've touched upon that here. And also, I'm so grateful. You came on the podcast. We were connected by a whole bunch of people who said, Hey, Hayley, you have to meet Karl. And now I have. And now here you are. Thank you so much for taking your time to to join the Learning Can't Wait podcast.

Karl Rectanus: Hey, thanks for everything. I really enjoy the conversation, but I enjoy listening, and I enjoy the work that you guys do. So. Thanks so much.

Hayley Spira-Bauer: Thank you. And I'll be continuing to follow the incredible work of LearnPlatform and the Instructure family. And I hope that you all enjoyed today's episode with Karl Rectanus.

Karl Rectanus: Thanks.